View Full Version : Dues increasing to $79.00 per month??!!
5Healys
09-27-2007, 04:49 PM
Unreal....this is more than the $75.00 we paid 15 years ago when we first moved to HTC.....and there were far fewer homes here. HTC weathered the storm of foreclosures in the 90's without our dues ever increasing. I'm aware of increased costs in our economy and we also cannot fix the mistakes that past BOD's have made. Just venting :mad:
Unreal....this is more than the $75.00 we paid 15 years ago when we first moved to HTC.....and there were far fewer homes here. HTC weathered the storm of foreclosures in the 90's without our dues ever increasing. I'm aware of increased costs in our economy and we also cannot fix the mistakes that past BOD's have made. Just venting :mad:
Hopefully the 344 homes not currently paying dues have had liens filed against them, so that when the homes are sold, our Association will receive the funds owed and our dues will return to previous levels.
Jim
Just Me
09-27-2007, 07:01 PM
I understand the frustration, but it could be worse! It was $75 when we moved in here too, but at one point went all the way down to I think $59. Hang in there, maybe we'll get a break again in the future. If it helps (I'm sure it won't - :(), a relative of mine owns a condo in Garden Grove. Years ago (like 10+) they paid $250 a month and all they had was a jacuzzi and bbq for their "community" area. No parking either. AND, the whole complex needed new roofs at one point so they raised the fee by $50 a month until they had enough to pay for the roofs. Who knows what they pay now. Just trying to look on the bright side - we have a lot for the money we pay.
Armydgaf
09-27-2007, 10:02 PM
We get a LOT for what we pay for. I do not know why everyone complains so much. Anyone can join the finance committee and see where the money is going. Maybe it would give you a better understanding.
My neighbor went to the meeting last night. The board was talking about raising dues again in January. Yes liens are put on homes, but that does not help us NOW. The board approved putting liens on another 110 homes last night. Everyone wants pretty landscape and all of lives little pleasures not realizing they all come at a price. When you move into an association we all have to bear the hard times. The board members also pay dues. Do you think they really want to cost themselves more money? I do not see the dues going down anytime soon. Look at how much the associations around us pay and what they get. Yes dues were cheaper for us a while back but we keep adding to what we have to maintain and prices go up on buying new things that need to be replaced. We have to keep up with the times changing.
Does anyone know at what amount the association can put a lien on a house? This might help everyone realize the expense.
Well! Think of it this way. We are going to be getting a Vons hopefully before summer at Indian Truck Trail. The money you will be saving on gas will off set the dues.
One thing I never got was everyone complaining about gas prices. Why isn't there more complaining about how much we pay for Starbucks or milk? All of which is made right here and not refined and shipped overseas. You can easily complain about the dues but are probably at Starbucks every other day. EVERYBODY has money for the things THEY want.
Kumbafu
09-28-2007, 09:49 AM
Why isn't there more complaining about how much we pay for Starbucks or milk?
For many reasons, I suppose.
First, because it's irrelevant. There is no relation between the cost of coffee or milk to the HOA assessment.
Comparing our monthy assessment to other HOA's doesn't help, either. People love to show how much other HOAs pay and compare how little they get for their money. What you don't hear about is the HOAs that charge less.
Just like with gas. Sure it cost a lot more in Europe (over $7/gallon in the UK), but less than 20 cents/gallon in Argentina.
Second, because we could complain ad infinitum about the cost of everything.
Gas is about $3/gallon
Milk is about $4/gallon.
Evian water is about $6/gallon.
Hershey's Choc Syrup is about $13/gallon.
Jamba Juice is about $20/gallon.
Red Bull is about $30/gallon.
Tabasco Sauce is about $95/gallon.
Liquid Paper is about $200/gallon.
Cover Girl nail polish is about $900/gallon
Black Ink (ink jet) is about $2,700/gallon
Chanel No 5 is about $25,000/gallon
Let's hope we don't need much of these...
Cobra Venom is about $150,000/gallon
Scorpion Venom is about $39,000,000/gallon
Third, we have a choice of whether or not to buy Starbucks or milk or where to buy coffee, milk, gas, etc. We have no choice in the assessment.
Kumbafu
09-28-2007, 10:14 AM
What I absolutely have a problem with is this statement from the global message that was sent out:
If we drive around the neighborhood we can see a number of homes that are up for sale. These homes that are up for sale are not paying monthly dues to the home owners association (HOA).
This is absolutely wrong and I have sent an email requesting an appology and correction by the BOD.
Speaking for myself, I have NEVER missed paying my monthly assessment. Either when my house was for sale or not. I would wager that the same is true for many others who have their house for sale. This statement is completely irresponsible for the BOD to make.
Just Me
09-28-2007, 10:23 AM
I don't receive the global messages, so work with me here. Was it implied that people selling their homes are no longer paying HOA fees, or is it the homes that are eventually bank owned? If it's the latter, why isn't the bank paying the fees? The "owner" should pay, regardless of who they are.
Kumbafu
09-28-2007, 10:28 AM
I don't receive the global messages, so work with me here. Was it implied that people selling their homes are no longer paying HOA fees, or is it the homes that are eventually bank owned? If it's the latter, why isn't the bank paying the fees? The "owner" should pay, regardless of who they are.
Here it is verbatim:
Dear Horsethief Canyon Ranch Homeowners:
With the recent change in the economy we have all seen the affects on the housing industry. Horsethief Canyon Ranch is not immune to this. If we drive around the neighborhood we can see a number of homes that are up for sale. These homes that are up for sale are not paying monthly dues to the home owners association (HOA). The dues are what the HOA relies on to pay for all the services in the communities that we have come to enjoy. The problem in the last several months is that the number of houses not contributing to this pool of money is increasing. In our neighborhood this amounts to over 18.5% of our homes. For number comparison, we have 1962 homes in our neighborhood. This means that we have 344 homes not contributing. In dollars this means our monthly budget comes up short $23,736. We have done our best to deal with it.
We are at a point where we can't operate anymore without the help of the contributing members in our community. According to the governing documents, specifically the CC&Rs, Article V, Section 3 and California Civil Code, Section 1366 (b) provide the authority for the Board to increase the monthly assessment up to 20% for a fiscal year. Therefore, the HOA Board has approved and will be implementing (Nov. 1) a dues increase for each home owner of $10.00 per month. Therefore, for the last two months in 2007, the homeowner's dues will be $79.00 per month.
With this said, we are additionally developing the 2008 budget. The Finance Committee has already received input from 5 homeowners regarding what the dues and the budget for 2008 will/should be. Working with the homeowner volunteers, data from the previous year's budgets, and the reserve study we will develop and finalize the budget for the fiscal year 2008.
If you are interested in participating, please contact Cheryl at the clubhouse (245-0268) to be added to the list of Finance Committee members. Our goal is to approve the budget at the October 24, 2007 Board meeting. If you are interested please let Cheryl know as soon as possible. Thanks for everyone's assistance in helping us maintain our community's quality of life.
Please forward any questions, in writing, to the Board of Directors at the address listed below.
Sincerely,
Board of Directors
HORSETHIEF CANYON RANCH
MAINTENANCE CORPORATION
Licorice
09-28-2007, 10:47 AM
One thing I never got was everyone complaining about gas prices. Why isn't there more complaining about how much we pay for Starbucks or milk? All of which is made right here and not refined and shipped overseas. You can easily complain about the dues but are probably at Starbucks every other day. EVERYBODY has money for the things THEY want.
You're jokes are funny!
The problem is that a lot of the homes for sales right now are foreclosures and short sales. If they are not making their house payments what makes anyone think they are going to be paying the HOA? People who do not pay their HOA payments for 2 months can and will get a lien put on the house. But I know that even with a lien does not mean that the HOA will ever recover those fees. The banks will get their money before anyone else and there usually isnt enough left over for small debts like HOA liens. For instance the house across the street from me sold for $625000 last year. I know for a fact that they financed 100%. So they had a loan for $625,000 and it recently went to foreclosure. The bank knows that with this market they will not be able to get that full amount back so they have the house now listed for $493,000. The bank is already losing $132,000 on this deal and they are the 1st mortgage which means they get their money before anyone else. So in this case the HOA will never get any of their money for past dues not to mention the $75 recording fee for the lien they had to place. I am estimating at least 50-60 foreclosures in are community as of now. So there is a lot of money that we are missing and will never see.
Okay 2 months of increased dues but I think it might be longer and I agree that our dues are not that high compared to alot of other places now-a-days but why aren't our bylaws being changed???????? Stop spending money on the Luau & New Year's Eve parties. I'm sure they are great parties & the paid planners work hard but if we can't afford it . . . change the bylaws to reflect that.
And yes why aren't the banks paying the monthly dues on these foreclosures? How are they getting out of it this responsibility? Someone owns every house in here whether it be an individual or a bank. I don't understand how the letter is worded.
Just Me
09-28-2007, 03:17 PM
And yes why aren't the banks paying the monthly dues on these foreclosures? How are they getting out of it this responsibility? Someone owns every house in here whether it be an individual or a bank.
Exactly. I understand that the banks are losing money, but while they "own" the house they should pay the dues like every other owner. Hell, a good chunk of people selling right now are losing money...that's not a valid reason for them to stop paying their HOA dues.
Armydgaf
09-28-2007, 04:08 PM
For many reasons, I suppose.
First, because it's irrelevant. There is no relation between the cost of coffee or milk to the HOA assessment.
Comparing our monthy assessment to other HOA's doesn't help, either. People love to show how much other HOAs pay and compare how little they get for their money. What you don't hear about is the HOAs that charge less.
Just like with gas. Sure it cost a lot more in Europe (over $7/gallon in the UK), but less than 20 cents/gallon in Argentina.
Second, because we could complain ad infinitum about the cost of everything.
Gas is about $3/gallon
Milk is about $4/gallon.
Evian water is about $6/gallon.
Hershey's Choc Syrup is about $13/gallon.
Jamba Juice is about $20/gallon.
Red Bull is about $30/gallon.
Tabasco Sauce is about $95/gallon.
Liquid Paper is about $200/gallon.
Cover Girl nail polish is about $900/gallon
Black Ink (ink jet) is about $2,700/gallon
Chanel No 5 is about $25,000/gallon
Let's hope we don't need much of these...
Cobra Venom is about $150,000/gallon
Scorpion Venom is about $39,000,000/gallon
Third, we have a choice of whether or not to buy Starbucks or milk or where to buy coffee, milk, gas, etc. We have no choice in the assessment.
Who's assessments are cheaper and what do they get. I hear people saying that our dues are more expensive than we paid 15 years ago. Hello!! $4 compared to 15 years ago. I think that is pretty good.
People do have a choice whether or not to pay assessments. They could live somewhere that didn't have them.
Bottom line is prices almost always go up. It is a fact of life. If someone is short on money do you think they are going to pay their electric bill or the association????? Times are hard right now and everyone needs to just suck it up and do their best.
Still on my mind! Not all 344 homes are in foreclosure are they????
And I heard 110 were getting liens placed on them for not paying dues but HOW LONG have these homeowners not been paying dues for???????? How long can you "push it" before you get "in trouble - a lien" placed on your home? Why wasn't the lien procedure done much sooner???????? And how come only 110 homes are getting liens placed on them - what about the remaining non-paying homeowners. I just find the letter so confusing & many people are upset by it. All these 344 homes are not going to sell right away so we will probably have the dues increase or more of an increase going into 2008 - why not stop having the parties & stuff until things get back to normal or we get the lien money????
Here it is verbatim:
Dear Horsethief Canyon Ranch Homeowners:
With the recent change in the economy we have all seen the affects on the housing industry. Horsethief Canyon Ranch is not immune to this. If we drive around the neighborhood we can see a number of homes that are up for sale. These homes that are up for sale are not paying monthly dues to the home owners association (HOA). The dues are what the HOA relies on to pay for all the services in the communities that we have come to enjoy. The problem in the last several months is that the number of houses not contributing to this pool of money is increasing. In our neighborhood this amounts to over 18.5% of our homes. For number comparison, we have 1962 homes in our neighborhood. This means that we have 344 homes not contributing. In dollars this means our monthly budget comes up short $23,736. We have done our best to deal with it.
We are at a point where we can't operate anymore without the help of the contributing members in our community. According to the governing documents, specifically the CC&Rs, Article V, Section 3 and California Civil Code, Section 1366 (b) provide the authority for the Board to increase the monthly assessment up to 20% for a fiscal year. Therefore, the HOA Board has approved and will be implementing (Nov. 1) a dues increase for each home owner of $10.00 per month. Therefore, for the last two months in 2007, the homeowner's dues will be $79.00 per month.
With this said, we are additionally developing the 2008 budget. The Finance Committee has already received input from 5 homeowners regarding what the dues and the budget for 2008 will/should be. Working with the homeowner volunteers, data from the previous year's budgets, and the reserve study we will develop and finalize the budget for the fiscal year 2008.
If you are interested in participating, please contact Cheryl at the clubhouse (245-0268) to be added to the list of Finance Committee members. Our goal is to approve the budget at the October 24, 2007 Board meeting. If you are interested please let Cheryl know as soon as possible. Thanks for everyone's assistance in helping us maintain our community's quality of life.
Please forward any questions, in writing, to the Board of Directors at the address listed below.
Sincerely,
Board of Directors
HORSETHIEF CANYON RANCH
MAINTENANCE CORPORATION
Liens are put on a homeowners house if they are 2 or more months past due. It used to be 3 but the law changed a year ago.
No where in the letter does it say that the due increase is only for 2 months. It says that it will increase for the last 2 months of 2007 and that they are working on the 2008 budget which means they will most likely keep it at $79 a month.
I think instead of complaining about an extra $10 a month, people should start complaining about the high electrical rates we pay, or the expensive gross water we pay for, etc. Our waste management fees here are the highest I've seen. Complain about other things that will really save you money.
Gina, can't speak for others but I am complaining because how the letter was written comes across like we paying homeowners have to step up because some homeowner's aren't - not because they lost there job or illness or death but because they bought something they couldn't afford. Those of us who bought within ours means have to pay for those that bought a house they probably couldn't afford because some bank or mortgage place told them they could afford it. (I know not all lenders are like that but there are many out there that are like that)
I know some people that have not paid there dues for more than 2 months & NOTHING has happened. Why? But you also said we probably won't ever see the lien money anyhow.
The high water bills are old news. And our highest electric bill ever in 4 years was only $240. Waste Mgmt. I agree is high now. I think because there are more homes & more demand for them. To rent a bin for 7 days now is $144 & last year is was $84 that is a big increase!
$240 for electric you are lucky. Ours has never been that low. We actually had a bill last summer that was almost $900. It was crazy.
I understand about the way the letter was written. It was dumb on their part for blaming it on other people. But I am sure they were just being honest. If they wrote for any other purpose than people would complain that the Board was wasting money and just wanted more for reasons we dont need to spend money on.
Legolas
10-01-2007, 08:28 PM
Gina, can't speak for others but I am complaining because how the letter was written comes across like we paying homeowners have to step up because some homeowner's aren't
Yup.. That's exactly right. You do. This is the reason that some people won't live in a HOA community. Because, that's exactly what you need to do! You (should have known this) when you moved here.
$240 for electric you are lucky. Ours has never been that low. We actually had a bill last summer that was almost $900.
You know Gin, if you want your house to be 68 degrees year round, you should move somewhere a bit more NORTH of SoCal! I've never had a bill higher than $300 (and that was when our upstairs A/C unit wasn't working, and we didn't realize it). We have the 3000sqft house; and we keep the A/C on 24/7 at 77F...
David
Licorice
10-01-2007, 09:06 PM
This is getting totally off subject, but since high utility bills was brought up...
We do the level pay plan for both SCE and The Gas Co. It doesn't mean we pay any less, it just spreads it out and alleviates the chance of getting shocking bills in the mail. We have a pool/spa so it affects both bills at any given time of the year. I just wish it was possible for ALL utility bills. I would think it would be in the utility companies best interests to offer this since people would be less inclined to pay late if they were able to know what to expect each month.
We have a large yard which can really run up the water bill in the summer - it would be nice to spread that out too. We have to have an extra trash can for our yard clippings - that bill, even with the extra can doesn't seem to be too bad to me though.
You know Gin, if you want your house to be 68 degrees year round, you should move somewhere a bit more NORTH of SoCal! I've never had a bill higher than $300 (and that was when our upstairs A/C unit wasn't working, and we didn't realize it). We have the 3000sqft house; and we keep the A/C on 24/7 at 77F...
David
Its actually a 2794 square foot house. And I have the same model. I dont keep it 68. I actually dont turn the air on for anything below 79. I do have 2 air conditioner units and a very large pool and spa. My bill has not been below $300 in a very long time.
briant
10-02-2007, 09:14 AM
Its actually a 2794 square foot house. And I have the same model. I dont keep it 68. I actually dont turn the air on for anything below 79. I do have 2 air conditioner units and a very large pool and spa. My bill has not been below $300 in a very long time.
The electric bill for our family of five was $13 last month.It included a $37 rebate from SCE for letting them turn off our air conditioner when they want to.We fooled them though,we never turned it on.
I think the bill all depends on how many are home and for how long. I am home almost all the time with my son. I would try to keep on one AC on but he takes naps and it gets really hot upstairs. I also think it depends on which your house is facing compared to the sun.
But back on schedule..... The good news is, I have seen quit a few buyers looking at some of the foreclosures that are close to me. So hopefully some of them will be purchased soon and they can start contributing to the HOA again.
David, I have lived in an HOA before & it was a totally different experience than here -much more positive. Just being honest! I think our development is to big to run smoothly.
Gina, we use the SCE payment plan - so much easier than getting big bills in the Summerm - you can sign up on-line - very easy. I'm home all the time too. Our highest month was the month the baby was born & we were so overwhelmed with her I don't think we had time to worry about the a/c usage! Our upstairs is hot too & the a/c stinks upstairs. We only have one a/c unit & I think it's the original 18 yrs. old! If it's really hot I let the baby nap in the packnplay downstairs. Our water bill is usually more than our elec. bill all the time! About $150 a month from April to Oct. & we have no pool or spa or anything!
Glad to see people are still home shopping! Our carpet cleaner just bought a 2700 sq. foot BRAND NEW home in Rosetta Canyon (L.E.) and paid only $308!!! That scares me regarding the selling of our homes. Taxes will be 1.9% & HOA fee is $110 a month & as you know same school district as us.
Have a nice day everyone!
CarmenB
10-04-2007, 11:59 AM
Has anyone figured out how much the folks at Sycamore are paying? I heard their dues are much, much higher than ours. I guess we ought to be grateful. Everything is increasing, it is a sign of times.
I believe they pay approx $100- $110. But their taxes are ALOT higher than ours. About 1.7-1.9% OUCH!
yella70
10-05-2007, 07:21 PM
I think if they up our dues because of the forclousers they should pay to get the water turned on at the foreclosed houses so we do not have to look at the dead grass that makes our neighborhoods look ghetto!
In speaking to a few of my neighbors, we all agree that as a community, we need to take a vote on how our money is spent. Tough times call for cutting back. As another member said, why do we need a Luau? These events are fun but if we are to the point that the BOD is deciding to stick the existing homeowners with the tab of people who bailed on their homes, we really need to take a look at what can be cut back. In fact, maybe if our money hadn't been spent without our knowledge on the baseball fields, maybe we could have used that money to help out now (with everyone's approval of course). I agree that the banks should be billed for the HOA's since they own the house. The letter that went out was really irresponsible. The way it's worded means to me that if everyone bailed out of HTC, then they could stick me with the entire tab if they wanted. We need to change the by laws and take control of how our hard earned dollars are spent. I live in a house I can afford and I don't think it's fair that we have to take on the burden of someone else's foolish decision.
You elect 5 of your neighbors to do everything you mentioned above. Could you imagine what the meetings would be like if everyone had a vote on every little thing we spent money on? Its not realistic. If you want your input, than either sign up to be on the finance committee, or run for the BOD next year.
CarmenB
10-08-2007, 01:42 PM
I think if they up our dues because of the forclousers they should pay to get the water turned on at the foreclosed houses so we do not have to look at the dead grass that makes our neighborhoods look ghetto!
I second this.
CarmenB
10-08-2007, 01:48 PM
In speaking to a few of my neighbors, we all agree that as a community, we need to take a vote on how our money is spent. Tough times call for cutting back. As another member said, why do we need a Luau? These events are fun but if we are to the point that the BOD is deciding to stick the existing homeowners with the tab of people who bailed on their homes, we really need to take a look at what can be cut back. In fact, maybe if our money hadn't been spent without our knowledge on the baseball fields, maybe we could have used that money to help out now (with everyone's approval of course). I agree that the banks should be billed for the HOA's since they own the house. The letter that went out was really irresponsible. The way it's worded means to me that if everyone bailed out of HTC, then they could stick me with the entire tab if they wanted. We need to change the by laws and take control of how our hard earned dollars are spent. I live in a house I can afford and I don't think it's fair that we have to take on the burden of someone else's foolish decision.
I agree on cutting out the festivities, whichever they may be, and dedicate the funds to the upkeep of the community. I believe we would all feel better in seeing that our dollars are put to good use.
Legolas
10-08-2007, 08:12 PM
I agree on cutting out the festivities, whichever they may be, and dedicate the funds to the upkeep of the community. I believe we would all feel better in seeing that our dollars are put to good use.
Our community Bylaws actually state that HCR needs to provide RECREATION to the homeowners.. To get rid off all the fun stuff would actually mean a change in the Bylaws!
The bylaws and CC&R's need to be updated anyways. It states that RV's are allowed for 72 hours for loading and unloading, but the County says there not allowed at all.
Our community Bylaws actually state that HCR needs to provide RECREATION to the homeowners.. To get rid off all the fun stuff would actually mean a change in the Bylaws!
I thought "recreation" meant tennis courts, swimming pools, volleyball courts, gym, etc. I didn't think it meant the luau and other social gatherings.
As long as the dues don't get out of hand, I don't think an increase now and then is horrible. At least the dues have decreased in the past. There is always hope...
Licorice
10-09-2007, 09:23 AM
I thought "recreation" meant tennis courts, swimming pools, volleyball courts, gym, etc. I didn't think it meant the luau and other social gatherings.
As long as the dues don't get out of hand, I don't think an increase now and then is horrible. At least the dues have decreased in the past. There is always hope...
I agree. Plus, some of the events mentioned require a fee from those who attend which shows that the funds used to put it on are off-set somewhat, if not covered completely (depending on the event).
Someone mentioned the money that went to baseball fields. Hasn't this been debated to death yet? It's SO in the past! Griping about it won't change what's been done - moving on can only make you feel better. Look at the positives that came out of it and again...move on.
Right winger
10-09-2007, 04:36 PM
You guys crack me up. I lose more money then this in my pockets when I do laundry........ give these guys a break ;)
The bylaws and CC&R's need to be updated anyways. It states that RV's are allowed for 72 hours for loading and unloading, but the County says there not allowed at all.
I agree the bylaws & CC&R's do need to be updated to reflect our current issues especially for the type of homeowners this community is attracting. The $10.00 a month increase isn't that much you could say but evidently our current fee of $69.00 is too much as 334 (I think that was the number) homeowner's can't afford to pay it so . . . that's alot of homeowners. And I'm sorry but many of these homeowners are probably attending our paid out-of- our dues, per the bylaws, recreations - just doesn't seem kosher.
I didn't like the letter but I think it is good we did see the truth of what is going on. I'm hoping it will cause change of better financial responsibility.
You guys crack me up. I lose more money then this in my pockets when I do laundry........ give these guys a break ;)
Agree but like I said & will say again, evidently just our current dues of $69.00 is to much for 334 homeowners!!!!!!!! Dude think about that!
Right winger
10-09-2007, 05:14 PM
I am sure its not the case for every one of those homeowners that the dues are too high. They just prefer to buy beer, dirtbikes, lift kits for their trucks, big screen tvs, etc.... because they work and deserve those things :rolleyes:
Thanks for saying what I didn't have the balls to write because I knew I'd be pounced on!!!!!!! What irks me is that this type of thinking defeats the whole moving into a homeowner's association idea in my opinion. We wanted to live in an HOA to stay away from the rif raf & be amongst people that cared about how there surroundings looked, etc. To us/me that is what a HOA is for, otherwise why live in one????? Trust me I love nice things too but . . . . . . :marchmellow: such is life!!!!!!!!!!
I am sure its not the case for every one of those homeowners that the dues are too high. They just prefer to buy beer, dirtbikes, lift kits for their trucks, big screen tvs, etc.... because they work and deserve those things :rolleyes:
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